Pastoral Musings

Thoughts, essays, and miscellanea…

And It Continues

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 8th December 2011

Joel quotes Frame and Craig on presuppositional apologetics.
Joel quotes Frame as saying,

“But are we not still forced to say, ‘God exists (presupposition), therefore God exists (conclusion),’ and isn’t that argument clearly circular? Yes, in a way. But that is unavoidable for any system, any worldview. One cannot argue for an ultimate standard by appealing to a different standard. That would be inconsistent.” (Five Views on Apologetics, p217)

What Joel neglects is context.
Frame continued and said,

“…even this circle, as I indeicated earlier, is linear in a sense. For it is a movement from God’s truth, to the gift of faith, to the reflection of God’s truth in human reasoning.” (ibid)

He then quotes Craig,

“Presuppositionalism commits the informal fallacy of begging the question, for it advocates presupposing the truth of Christian theism in order to prove Christian theism. It is difficult to imagine how anyone could with a straight face think to show theism to be true by reasoning, ‘God exists, therefore God exists.’ A Christian theist himself will deny that question-begging arguments prove anything.” (p233)

Again, Joel neglects context.
Craig continued and said,

” If this were all presuppositionalism had to offer as an apologetic, it would be so ludicrous that no one would have taken is seriously. But at the heart of presuppositionalism lies an argument, often not clearly understood or articulated, which is very powerful. this is an epistemological transcendental argument. A transcendental argument, as Kant used the term, is an argument for a reality based on that reality’s being the very conditions for the denial of that reality. …Frame explicitly endorses such an argument, stating, that our apologetic ‘should present the biblical God, not merely as the conclusion to an argument, but as the one who makes the argument possible.’ …” (ibid)

Ultimately, Craig does not feel that Frame fleshed out the argument as he should have, but Craig does not present Frame as being so totally wrong as Joel would evidently wish for us to think.

It is necessary to deal correctly with materials that we quote.

 

Update: Joel, in the comments section of his post

Here is what Craig said about the transcendental argument, however:

The nontheist who thinks that he is warranted in his nonbelief unwittingly presupposes the existence of God in his very denial of God, for warrant involves proper functioning, and proper functioning entails theism…This is not a vicious sort of circularity, but rather the inherent nature of a transcendental argument. (ibid pg 234)

Ultimately, then, Craig accepts the transcendental argument of presuppositionalism. He simply feels that Frame could/should have laid out his argument better so as to be more convincing, so he concludes that Platinga did a better job with the transcendental argument.

 

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Presuppostionalism And Epistemology

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 8th December 2011

Joel claims that presuppositionalists make God second to epistemology. That statement is fallacious. In fact, it is nonsensical.

Title page of Institutio Christianae Religioni...

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Epistemology is the study of the source and nature of knowledge. Presuppositionalists say that God is the source of all knowledge. That means God answers the epistemelogical question.
This is nothing new. It may be a relatively new way of stating things, but it is not a new view.

Calvin said,
in the first place, no man can survey himself without forthwith turning his thoughts towards the God in whom he lives and moves; because it is perfectly obvious, that the endowments which we possess cannot possibly be from ourselves; nay, that our very being is nothing else than subsistence in God alone. In the second place, those blessings which unceasingly distil to us from heaven, are like streams conducting us to the fountain. Here, again, the infinitude of good which resides in God becomes more apparent from our poverty

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997).

 

not a particle of light, or wisdom, or justice, or power, or rectitude, or genuine truth, will anywhere be found, which does not flow from him, and of which he is not the cause; in this way we must learn to expect and ask all things from him, and thankfully ascribe to him whatever we receive. For this sense of the divine perfections is the proper master to teach us piety, out of which religion springs. By piety I mean that union of reverence and love to God which the knowledge of his benefits inspires. For, until men feel that they owe everything to God, that they are cherished by his paternal care, and that he is the author of all their blessings, so that nought is to be looked for away from him, they will never submit to him in voluntary obedience; nay, unless they place their entire happiness in him, they will never yield up their whole selves to him in truth and sincerity.

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997).

Calvin understood that God is the source of all knowledge. He did not understand that except for the fact that he found that truth in Scripture. He also saw that man must subject his knowledge and his passions to God as the supreme authority.

Scripture teaches us that man knows God by nature, knows that God is the absolute and supreme authority, and that man suppresses that knowledge (See Romans 1:18-21).

Calvin stated,

how can the idea of God enter your mind without instantly giving rise to the thought, that since you are his workmanship, you are bound, by the very law of creation, to submit to his authority?—that your life is due to him?—that whatever you do ought to have reference to him? If so, it undoubtedly follows that your life is sadly corrupted, if it is not framed in obedience to him, since his will ought to be the law of our lives. On the other hand, your idea of his nature is not clear unless you acknowledge him to be the origin and fountain of all goodness. Hence would arise both confidence in him, and a desire of cleaving to him, did not the depravity of the human mind lead it away from the proper course of investigation.
For, first of all, the pious mind does not devise for itself any kind of God, but looks alone to the one true God; nor does it feign for him any character it pleases, but is contented to have him in the character in which he manifests himself always guarding, with the utmost diligences against transgressing his will, and wandering, with daring presumptions from the right path. He by whom God is thus known perceiving how he governs all things, confides in him as his guardian and protector, and casts himself entirely upon his faithfulness,—perceiving him to be the source of every blessing, if he is in any strait or feels any want, he instantly recurs to his protection and trusts to his aid,—persuaded that he is good and merciful, he reclines upon him with sure confidence, and doubts not that, in the divine clemency, a remedy will be provided for his every time of need,—acknowledging him as his Father and his Lords he considers himself bound to have respect to his authority in all things, to reverence his majesty aim at the advancement of his glory, and obey his commands,—regarding him as a just judge, armed with severity to punish crimes, he keeps the Judgment-seat always in his view. Standing in awe of it, he curbs himself, and fears to provoke his anger. Nevertheless, he is not so terrified by an apprehension of Judgment as to wish he could withdraw himself, even if the means of escape lay before him; nay, he embraces him not less as the avenger of wickedness than as the rewarder of the righteous; because he perceives that it equally appertains to his glory to store up punishment for the one, and eternal life for the other. Besides, it is not the mere fear of punishment that restrains him from sin. Loving and revering God as his father, honouring and obeying him as his master, although there were no hell, he would revolt at the very idea of offending him.
Such is pure and genuine religion, namely, confidence in God coupled with serious fear—fear, which both includes in it willing reverence, and brings along with it such legitimate worship as is prescribed by the law. And it ought to be more carefully considered that all men promiscuously do homage to God, but very few truly reverence him. On all hands there is abundance of ostentatious ceremonies, but sincerity of heart is rare.

John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997).

In other words, Calvin saw that man recognizes within himself that God is the source of all knowledge, morality, goodness, and of every gift that he receives. Man is thus morally obligated to honor God by submitting to Him in the manner in which He has revealed to us that we should submit ourselves.

The important thing to see here is not simply the fact that Calvin’s view of man, God, Scripture, and obedience are essentially the same as those of the presuppositionalist, but that Calvin understood that God is the source of all knowledge.

Calvin knew that epistemology was not second to God. God, rather, is the source of all knowledge and the answer to the question epistemology asks. Calvin will continue on to teach (As does the presuppositionalist) that we gain knowledge of God from His Word, the Scriptures.  To say that presuppositionalists believe or do otherwise is either to misunderstand that issue before us, or it is intellectually dishonest.

 

Finally, Joel states ,

When we feel we must infer something upon Scripture, then we are denying the authority of Scripture.

This is definitely an issue of dishonesty. Joel has stated that he does not believe in the authority of Scripture, but he now claims that presuppositionalists are denying the authority of Scripture. One cannot eat his cake and have it, too.

Furthermore, the statement of Joel’s  is simply nonsense. It is meaningless, because to infer is to arrive at something through reasoning. You do not infer something UPON Scripture: you infer FROM Scripture. And that is what presuppositionalists do.

If you wish to get some background to this discussion, it starts here, then you can continue here.

 

Update: I’ve also commented on Joel’s post here and here.

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The Word of God

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 4th September 2011

Cornelius Van Til

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It is only if you reject the Bible as the word of God that you can separate the so-called religious and moral instructions of the Bible from what it says, e.g., about the physical universe.

Cornelius Van Til, Christian Apologetics, pg 2

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Francis Schaeffer’s Works Online in MP3 Format

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 29th May 2011

Francis Schaeffer

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Wow!  I’m sure that I’m running behind, but I just found Francis Schaeffer’s works available as free MP3 downloads.

 

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Book Review: Already Compromised (Ken Ham, Greg Hall, Britt Beemer) | The Biblical Bookshelf

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 21st May 2011

Daniel Mount reviews “Already Compromised” by Ken Ham.

 

Though the authors watered down their conclusions to some extent, their research is strong and convincing. Though it’s not as strong as it could be, Already Compromised is an incredibly valuable resource for parents with children nearing or in their high-school years. It receives a four-star rating from the Biblical Bookshelf.

via Book Review: Already Compromised (Ken Ham, Greg Hall, Britt Beemer) | The Biblical Bookshelf.

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The Best Apologetic of All

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 15th May 2011

Cornelius Van Til

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Apologetics, if they are actually effective, serve the church more than they serve the unbelievers.  That is my opinion, but I must ask how many people have come to Christ through learning that Noah’s ark could indeed hold all of those animals?  That would seem to serve to confirm the faith of a person more than convert an unbeliever.

No.  What we need to help us reach the unbeliever is something stronger than an argument for the existence of God.  We need something stronger than creation science, or worldview conferences, though they are certainly helpful for those within the fold.

We need something strong enough to convince a person who is hostile to the faith.

We need something strong enough to overcome the hostility to Christianity and Christians.

We need Spirit-filled Christians.

We need Christians who live out their convictions.

We need Christians who are genuine, sincere, and obviously real.

In short, we need true Christians, and not the anemic hodge-podge that we have are today.

 

“Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. ” (1 Peter 2:11–12)

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In Tragedy It Is Not “Why?” But “Who?”

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 10th April 2011

After Job asked many questions, he got no answers other than that God was wiser than he.  You would think that he would have not appreciated that response.  Modern man certainly doesn’t, it seems.  The truth is, however, God is indeed wiser than we.

Modern man seeks to bring God into judgment as though He must answer to us for what He does or allows.  The locus of worth is misplaced.  It is not God, but we who are on trial.

Unless we humble down and recognize that it is not “why?” but “who?” in the midst of our sufferings, we miss the point of what is going on.

Job said that his experience led him to recognize God more fully ( Job 42:5 ).  Though his questions weren’t answered, he knew “WHO”, and that was all that truly mattered.

I once heard a song that said,

I don’t need to understand; I just need to hold HIS hand.

Let us recognize and appreciate the sovereign wisdom of God, even when we don’t understand and the answers don’t seem to be forthcoming.

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Why Dave Black Wrote “Why Four Gospels?”

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 1st April 2011

I wrote my book Why Four Gospels? not so much to argue for Matthean priority as to affirm the complete historicity and apostolicity of the Gospels. Early in my Christian experience I discovered that the Gospels were — and needed to be — central in my understanding not only of the Good News about Jesus Christ but of life itself. Only the cross of Jesus can supply meaning to life, and that is because the cross and the resurrection are an interwoven reality.

via Embellishing Stories » Why Four Gospels?.

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Evangelicals And Scripture

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 30th March 2011

Within evangelical circles, the decline of expository preaching in favor of topical speeches laced with person anecdotes, insights, and examples drawn from cultural authorities communicates to God’s people where we think the power and relevance of our speech really lies.

Michael Horton: The Christian Faith

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The Goal of Theology

Posted by Pastoral Musings on 22nd March 2011

The goal of theology is not to answer all of our questions and give us intellectual mastery of our object: rather, it is the practical reconciliation of sinners to God.

Michael Horton, The Christian Faith, pg 97

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