Pastoral Musings

ScottL said on his blog:

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my thesis is that, a) in his incarnation, Jesus did not know everything and b) this can be an encouragement to us. ..

Jesus, as a full human, submitting himself to being like us (Heb 2:14; Phil 2:6), lived as a human as God intended, fully relying on the Father in all things. He was an example to us and was able to do what we actually are not able to do fully. That’s why we will find Christ making statements such as this:

Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19)

When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. (John 8:28)

There are plenty of other examples, especially in the Gospel where John states his point is to show that Jesus is the Messiah-Christ and Son of God (John 20:31). But what is coming through all of this is that Jesus was depending absolutely upon the Father – in what he both spoke and did…

And so I do believe we can find great encouragement in these things. Jesus, though the Son of God, humbled himself, laid aside his grasp at his omniscience, laid aside his grasp at being served by humanity, and lived as one totally dependent upon the Father and the Father alone.

My reply:

Actually, the John 5 quote is out of context.
“So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.” (John 5:19–21)
Jesus actually stated that the Father showed Him all that He was doing. All. That is the Father works (John 5:17) and the Son works. They do what they do hand-in-hand. Whatever the Father does, He shows the Son. Perfect, uninterrupted communion and communication.
How did Jesus know the hearts of men, as we see demonstrated at various times?
If you take omniscience away from Jesus, you take away a divine attribute, and thus, deity.
It was not that Jesus emptied Himself of these things. In fact, John 1:18;3:13 show us that Jesus was still in the very presence of the Father, so His incarnation did not cause omnipresence to cease.
Jesus’ emptying Himself speaks of not clinging to the glories of being worshiped and adored as He was before the incarnation. He became a man of sorrows. Yes, He chose to not exercise His divine attributes from time to time. There’s no doubt about that. To say that they were not in Him and not active would be incorrect.
This is the imbalance that we need to correct. We can overemphasize deity, or we can overemphasize humanity.
We must strive for balance.

ScottL replied:

a) I didn’t use the John 5:19 passage out of context because my point was that Jesus relied fully on the Father, and this was an example.

b) Do you think that the ALL that was revealed meant that it all came at once with an instantaneous download? [Not to mention that I doubt this verse speaks about mathematics, economics, politics, astronomy, etc.]

c) You didn’t deal with any other verses that actually show Jesus, in his incarnation amongst us, did not know everything.

My reply here:

I think we’re talking past each other. What I’m dealing with is in response to your saying that Jesus did not grasp at omniscience, as though Jesus emptied Himself of it.

I say once again that, Jesus without omniscience is only human. Deny Him the divine attributes and you deny Him deity.

I can certainly accept Jesus as man growing in wisdom and knowledge. I can accept that He did not always exercise His omniscience, but used it at will. I cannot accept the statement that He was not possessed of omniscience.

Peter even stated that Jesus knew all things (John 20:), so we know that He did possess omniscience.

It is not the human side of Jesus that I reject. I reject the stripping of Jesus’ deity which amounts to nothing more than ancient Arianism in modern day clothes. Kenotic Arianism is Arianism none the less. It just has a new look.

Related articles

• Inerrancy: Jesus, John And The Scriptures (pastoralmusings.com)
• Why I Dont Buy Kenotic Theology (withalliamgod.wordpress.com)